Nice. Would be nice, to have a side with lot of that

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Nice. Would be nice, to have a side with lot of that

Postby Stenley » Sat May 05, 2007 12:02 pm

Nice news!
And Thants to the JIDE-team.

Nice enhancements to the Swing components. And then under the same license like Suns Java will be. :D

Would be nice, if there existing a meta-side, which have links to a lot of those OpenSource-projects like JIDE Common Layer or L2FProd.com common.

A side with lots of OpenSource Swing-enhancements would be nice. I think, there existing also a lot of implementations of JFontChooser, JIconChooser and JDirectoryChooser, which are similar to JColorChooser and JFileChooser.

But the best would be, if it ends up in one product, so that not so many different enhancements would be needed.
And the JIDE-team seems to have already created a lot of enhancements, which are all under one roof.
Stenley
 

Postby JIDE Support » Sat May 05, 2007 8:23 pm

It is really a matter of who will maintain them if they are all in one project. We will maintain the JIDE Common Layer for free (kind of) as we will use them in other commercial JIDE products where we get paid. But if we add too many components to JIDE Common Layer, it could get out of control as we don't have enough resource if no one is helping us. So we want to get this open source effort growing and encourage contributation and participation. That's one reason we choose GPL so that you *must* contribute the change back if you modify the source code (even though from what I heard that most people are willing to contribute back even we don't use GPL to enfore it).

Another nice thing about JIDE Common Layer is there is a whole story behind it comparing to other open source swing component projects. That is the 8 different JIDE products (and more to come) built on top of it. Commercial companies love it because they just want to deal with one vendor for all Swing components. They need guranteed techincal support stablility, consistence and completeness. That's why they choose JIDE because they can't find what they want in other open source projects. Believe me, there is no JIDE Common Layer without those commercial companies who have been supporting JIDE since day one.

Thanks,
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Postby Stenley » Mon May 07, 2007 7:12 am

Hi, I'm again. It seems, that it is no longer possible to write without logging in... So, now I am registered.


I have now thought a little bit about this thematic. And I am not sure, if this is the best way for all, which JIDE Software have choosen. :?

I thought about it, if it wouldn't be better if you opens all the code under the GPL, instead of (big) parts under the GPL+linking exception.

There existing famouse software, with which companies makes money and which are under the GPL: Qt, CUPS, MySQL, etc...

I am also not sure, if you will find a few externel OpenSource-developer, who develop on the JIDE-classes.
And there I want to mention again the L2FProd.com common. This existing also already two or three years as OpenSource. But it seems, that there is only one author working on it. No externel other developer.
And here in the forum have also not so many people posted.

Mostly the power of OpenSource-developer will be overestimated.


Also you mentioned, that you have deliberately not choosen the BSD-license. But the GPL+linking exception is not far from it.
GPL+linking exception is lesser then the LGPL.

It have historical reasons why it exists:
At fisrt GNU Classpath was LGPL. But then some people also wanted the code for embedded systems and so. And on this platform - I have heard - will be the code mostly static compiled, which isn't allowed by th LGPL. And so GNU Classpath have put its code under the GPL+linking exception, which allows it to compile the code statical against code with every other license.
Sun have later choosen it for its OpenJDK library to inviting the free Java community to work together on Suns Java. Ironical the Java Mobile Edition is licensed under the GPL without linking exception.


So, with the actual OpenSource-license of JIDE Common Layer it is also allowed to create closed source programs which using it.
But will every company which takes it, gives it changes back? It is also possible, that they create closed-source classes, which are needed by there modified JIDE Common Layer then. So, the modified files alone don't help then.

And the OpenSource-community also would be happy with licenses like Qt: The code exists under the GPL, under something like the QPL (if anybody wants to write OpenSource-code which is not GPL-compatible, like a Apache-licensed program) and as commercial license.

What the OpenSource-community then do is something like with Qt:
Using it, sending bug-reports, if they find bugs, give reactions, which widgets they also wanted and where they think, that it would be nice, if JIDE would also create them, etc.
Thats what with Qt is: Trolltech have anywhere anytime said, that with making it under the GPL, there are much more people, who find bugs and makes so the software better, there are much more people, who say its wishes, what can be improved, and this helps also for the commercial edition.

A FAQ is also at
http://www.trolltech.com/developer/knowledgebase/


There are some things in JIDE-Common-Layer and so on, which could also be helpful for Suns Java implementation (for example the fast gradient, which could be used for replace the slow implementazion in Suns Java).
But there it don't help, if you put your code under the GPL+linking exception. Like on OpenOffice.org and other projects, it will only be integrated in the official Java, if the author of the code, gives its copyright assignment, so that Sun holds the copyright of the code, too.
But for that, it would be better to handle it direct with Sun out.



So, I am not sure, if you doing the best for the OpenSource-community and yourself...


And then I have seen, that you have an Office-2007 Look and Feel for tabs and so on. An Visual Studio .NET look and feel and so.
But I am not sure, if this is legal...
Haven't Microsoft the copyright or patent on the design how the programs and widgets look and feel?


Greatings
Stenley
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Postby JIDE Support » Mon May 07, 2007 9:32 am

Thanks for the detailed post. We really appreciated. We are actually OK if people use JIDE Common Layer in closed-source projects. We intentionally want the exact license term as OpenJDK. Otherwise we will pick GPL as you said. And we don't want to open source our other commercial products even under dual licenses with one license being GPL because those are targeted for enterprise users who are willing to pay for those components.

As far as we know, it's OK to mimic some MS user interface. You can read especially Office 2007 user interface guideline and their icon copyright notice. As long as you don't misuse them, they are OK with it.

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